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Inside
On the Outs
By Ramona Prioleau
No
light-hearted fairytale, Lori Silverbush and Michael Skolnik's film,
On the Outs, is an intense, but necessary peek at inner-city life and
the cycles that define and limit possibility.
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The film, which stars Judy Marte
(Raising Victor Vargas), Paola Mendoza and Anny Mariano as Oz, Marisol
and Suzette, respectively, follows three teenagers as they confront
various obstacles and attempt to survive along the unforgiving Jersey
City streets with differing levels of sophistication.
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MOSAEC
caught up with Silverbush and Skolnik and peppered them with questions
about their powerful girls' tale from that hood where the cloak of
sugar and spice and everything nice leaves one defenseless.
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© 2006 Polychrome Pictures
Co-Director
Lori Silverbush (in black sweater) talks to the actors before a scene
in juvie in On the Outs
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How
familiar were you with the perils of inner city youth, particularly
young women, before you decided to create On the Outs? Why did you
want to do a story about troubled young girls trying to survive in the
mean streets?
Lori Silverbush: My own background is one of
privilege, but I'm only one generation removed from the immigrant
experience and lives of profound hardship. I see connections between
those who came before me and those who are struggling today, except
that today there are fewer social supports for people on the margins
than ever before, and much less dialogue as a society about how to
assist communities that need it. Issues of class, race and identity
interest me, and the lives of young people interest me -- it felt
natural to put those interests together. And we particularly wanted to
explore the lives of young girls because it seems they are often left
out of the story, or are a sideline to the story of our inner cities.
In my mind, they ARE the story.
Michael Skolnik: I have lived an interesting life
since I was a teenager where I lived half of my time in Westchester
(40 minutes north of New York City) with my family and the other half
living in New York City on my own working in the theater and with
Michael Moore. Many of my closest friends would tell me stories about
their lives (and we were like 14-15) that would blow me away, because
it was quite the opposite of my friends in Westchester. I decided at a
very young age that I would dedicate my work to those who do not have
the chance to tell their own stories. Most of my career I have
directed and produced documentaries (HBO's Back in the Hood: Gang War
II, Hooked: the Legend of Demetrius "Hook" Mitchell) and I
have been in some serious, real situations. When I was making Back in
the Hood, I met a young woman who was selling drugs to survive and
ultimately take care of her 4 year old child. I would see her every
time I would travel to Little Rock, AR and we would talk for hours. I
really wanted to do something for her. So, I came back to New York and
spoke with Lori, my co-director and Paola Mendoza, co-creator and
Marisol in On the Outs and told them that I would love to work with
them on a film about young women in struggle. I look at myself as
simply a messenger. It is hard for me at times to really think I am a
filmmaker, because I never thought I would be doing something like
this. If I was at the local Burger King next week flipping burgers, it
wouldn't surprise me.
How did you
develop the concept for On the Outs?
MS: Lori, Paola and I spent 3 months, 3 days a
week, 3 hours a day at the Hudson County Juvenile Detention Center
working with young women who were locked up. We knew we wanted to make
a film about young women, but we did not know the stories. We spent
months working with these young women developing the stories with
them. They knew exactly why we were there. At first they were
hesitant, but after a while they really embraced the process. They,
like most young people, did not believe that their story was worthy
enough of having a film made about it. In tribute to them, this film
was made.
What appealed
to you most about the project?
MS: The fact that we could do something that would
give voice to millions of young people that are struggling. When I was
a kid, I didn't have a struggle. Or I had struggle, but in a much
different way. I remember hanging out one night with a young man, who
was a 23rd Street Crip, and he asked me for five dollars. Now, I knew
this kid, so we could joke around. But, after the jokes were over, I
asked him how much money he had in his pocket. He told me $1. I asked
him if he had a bank account, credit card, parents to call...he had
nothing. It dawned on me that this young man has $1 to his name. SH!T.
$1 to his name. In f*cking America. That blew my mind. And he sold
drugs. And still had $1 to his name. I am only 27 years old, so these
are my peers. I can't sit back in my house and forget about my peers.
This ain't no Katrina aftershock. This is real.
LS: We get asked a lot why we chose to focus on
these girls, as if they represent this narrow little subsection of
society...but that's simply not the case. Girls and young women are
the fastest growing prison population in this country. More young
people -- and hence young women -- are living in poverty than ever
before. These are our kids. American kids. The sooner we acknowledge
that, the sooner we can start to fix things.
How did you
approach co-directing the film? Did it start out that way? How did you
divvy up shooting particular scenes?
MS: From the very beginning, it was a co-direction.
We did not split up duties during any part of production. We directed
every scene together and made decisions as a unit.
LS: I think it boiled down to whose throat hurt more
on any given day. And if I didn't get my coffee, it was the Michael
Skolnik show.
Why did you
choose to capture these stories in a narrative feature as opposed to a
documentary feature film? Did you think a narrative piece would most
effectively draw the target audience for On the Outs?
MS: As I make a lot of documentary films, I did not
want to make another one about this subject matter. There had been a
film made called Girlhood by Liz Garbus, which was an inspiration and
a beautiful film about two young women locked up in Baltimore, so we
felt that the great doc had already been made. So, I wanted to explore
the fictional world, which was a wild experience for me. Because I am
not used to all of the time, food and people around me when making a
film.
LS: It had nothing to do with planning our audience.
Liz made the definitive documentary film on the subject of
incarcerated girls and it blew us away. My skill is narrative story
telling...I was itching to go there with this subject.
Nevertheless,
On the Outs in some respects has a documentary feel. Do you agree? Why
or why not? Was this intentional?
MS: I think it is a compliment to say that On the
Outs has a documentary feel. As a documentary filmmaker, I would hope
that we would be able to capture a realness with a narrative film.
This is 100% intentional. I remember sneaking into the Angelika Film
Center in NYC in 95' to see Kids. I was 16, so I couldn't buy a
ticket. But when I watched that sh!t, I was like, "oh sh!t that
was real." I wanted young people to have that same reaction when
seeing On the Outs. I couldn't go to sleep at night knowing that kids
in my neighborhood in Brooklyn would say what we made was "on
some Hollywood bullsh!t." It's gotta be true and honest. We spoke
a lot about dialogue and subtitling some of the dialogue. I was very
much against that idea as I did not care if you couldn't understand
some of the things the characters were saying. Because you know what,
Jersey City is like another motherf*ckin' country...that's why we
don't take care of those kids. Until we want to believe that those
kids in Jersey City, New Orleans, Baltimore, Little Rock, and Oakland
are Americans, we will never solve the problem.
LS: Most documentaries, out of necessity, are
spontaneous and raw. Our choice was to let the subject matter dictate
the style of the film -- and these girls' lives were raw, and messy,
and chaotic, and charged and extemporaneous -- all the things we've
come to expect from a documentary film. If we had been making a film
about 18th century courtiers, I guess we would have gone for something
more mannered or stylized.
That said...every single beat in On the Outs was
meticulously plotted out -- each twist and turn and interweave between
stories was deliberate as hell and structured ahead of time.
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© 2006 Polychrome Pictures
(l.
to r.) Co-Director Michael Skolnik talks with Niru (sound recordist)
during production of On the Outs
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In
photographing the film with such bleakness and the various shades of
gray, what effect were you trying to achieve?
MS: We were not trying to make it bleak and gray. In
fact, we went for the opposite and when watching it on the big screen,
the colors are vibrant and alive. We put many of characters in bright,
vibrant colors...like Terell in neon blues and Milkman in a bright
yellow shirt. Also, the color palette of the community was vibrant and
interesting. It is one of the reasons why we chose Jersey City was
because it had this amazing color palette. The houses were painted
really beautiful colors and the store front had some flavor to them.
LS: We worked very closely with our amazing
cinematographer, Mariana Sanchez, to achieve three different color
palettes for the three lead characters that reflected their emotional
world and their varying circumstances. This extended to lighting,
filtration -- even the colors the girls wore from scene to scene. The
only time we went sort of monochromatic was in the jail and that was a
reflection of the actual environment, since we shot in a real jail,
which was a series of nauseating taupes and beige/greys and industrial
aqua, punctuated by the uniforms of the girls which stood out in
marked contrast to that -- blues and reds and (if they're on cleaning
duty) bright orange, which was a metaphor for the vibrancy of the
girls themselves, locked into a bleak situation.
Why did you
choose Jersey City as the setting for On the Outs?
MS: Most of the girls that we worked with in the
detention center came from Jersey City, so we thought we would start
there. When we started scouting locations, we fell in love with the
city. We loved that it was so close to NY, but yet so far away. There
is a re-occurring symbol of the Statue of Liberty in the film...but if
you look closely, the lady has her backed turned to Jersey City. So,
we didn't even need to make a statement, it was right there. Plus the
people of Jersey City opened their arms and let us in and we are
forever grateful to them for that.
LS: Also, drugs were cheap.
JUST KIDDING
Do you think
On the Outs, although reflective of inner city life, is still relevant
to suburban life?
MS: As someone who grew up most of my life in the
suburban life, I can say absolutely. I know more kids in the suburbs
that are f*cked up than in the "inner city." So, let's not
front, young people are young people and they can relate on many
levels. I would urge kids who live in the suburb to check out this
film, you might see something in your own life. For real.
LS:...and if you don't see the similarity, then that
in itself is an interesting stepping off point for asking questions.
Ask yourself, 'why am I living in relative ease, while 30 minutes away
a young person my age hasn't got something to eat?" It was
questions like that that launched me as a filmmaker in the first
place.
The three
young women featured in the film are products of
single-parent/absentee father households where each of their mothers
seems to have had children as teens. Do you think those facts
determine the path of Marisol, Suzette and Oz or are they unimportant
coincidences?
MS: I hate this argument, because it always becomes
a male bashing party, but of course it determines the path of our
three main characters. As a society, we have yet to really reconcile
with the true understanding about why the family structure has broken
down. And let's not front either, because in America the divorce rate
is over 50% and that is in all communities, not just "inner
city" communities. But, I think there are historical
significances in the plight of African-Americans and Latinos that
contribute to this dilemma. And you know what? White people need to
get involved in this conversation, because most of those historical
significances involved us. So, let's not comment on a race of people
or a group of people, but rather let's begin to support these
communities to rebuild the family.
LS: Poverty is a b*tch, whether it's white poverty
or black poverty or brown. It causes deeply entrenched dysfunction
which keeps on going through generations. Drugs and absentee parents
and all the rest of it are merely symptoms of the problem, but these
issues get treated as if the debate should start and end there. MORE >>>
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© 2006 Polychrome Pictures
(l.
to r.) Oz (Judy Marte), a 17-year-old drug dealer trying to cope with
her drug-addicted mother and mentally challenged brother, controls her
street corner with J. Stutter (Danny Rivera ) in On the Outs
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What
factors influenced your casting of the Latino rainbow portrayed in the
film? Was it intentional?
MS: I like your use of the Latino rainbow...never
thought about it like that, but that's what it is. To be honest, it
was not intentional. We did not have a casting director, we did
everything ourselves. So, when it came time to cast the film, we put
the call out to our friends and on craigslist and we took the best we
got. I am extremely proud of this cast. They worked their a$$ off for
this film and it shows, because they are damn good.
LS: We met white girls and black girls and Latina
girls in the juvenile jail, so we were less interested in the
ethnicities of our actresses than in the talent and inner qualities
they brought to the table. We knew Suzette needed a certain innocence
because she needs to be duped by her boyfriend; Oz had to have an
inner core of steel, etc. And we went for actresses who could deliver
those things.
Judy Marte,
the actress who played Oz had an outstanding debut as the ultra
lady-like Juicy Judy in Raising Victor Vargas and some may assume is
cast against type in On the Outs. Nevertheless, you directed her in a
way that distinguishes her performance in On the Outs from her other
roles. When you worked with her, what did you stress? How did you
direct Judy Marte so that her performance as Juicy Judy becomes a
distant memory for her fans?
MS: Judy did an amazing job with her character
because she worked hard to get there. From the very beginning of a 6
week rehearsal process, we stressed body movement and physicality. We
would listen to a 50 Cent record over and over again and just walk in
a room for hours. Once we got there, we worked on voice, and then the
rest fell into place. Judy is a real professional and an extremely
talented actress, so she went for it. She knew Oz was much different
than Juicy Judy and she approached Oz from a clean slate. But like
Judy, many of the actors busted their butt. Paola, for instance, who
plays Marisol, spent months researching people addicted to drugs. She
would go to meetings with recovering addicts, talk to folks on the
street...even to a point, where she spent some time in a crack house
working with an older woman who was addicted. She taught Paola a lot
and I know Paola is grateful to that woman for the insight. These
young actors worked. WORKED.
LS: Judy is also one of those rare actors who loses
herself in a role -- people say she was playing herself as Juicy Judy,
but I know her now like a little sister and I promise you, Juicy Judy
ain't Judy Marte...although, like Oz, the role taps into a facet of
her real personality. Judy is one of those actresses who works hard
but makes it look easy, like she's not even acting. I promise you if
people hadn't seen her all cute in Victor Vargas, they would just have
assumed Judy Marte was a tough dyke from the hood, playing herself.
Oz is a young
girl that wanted to control the streets rather than have the streets
control her. It also seemed as though Oz's thug persona and her
masculine attire served as her shield. Would you agree? Why or why
not?
MS: I think any tough persona, whether thug or not,
is a shield. I learned that when the Iran Hostages were released after
400+ days, the first thing the American government did was put them
into psychological evaluation and treatment. Young people who live the
life of an Oz, Suzette or Marisol most likely see more in their
lifetime than those who were taken hostage and never receive
treatment. So, of course they put up shields for simple protection. I
have met 100's of drug dealers throughout my life and not one of them
told me they love what they do. They all wanted out. Now, they still
wanted to make the money, but nevertheless they wanted out. But when
stuck in that environment, you have to survive, like a lion in a
jungle.
LS: But even though it's a shield -- and every kid
on the block knows they have to have their hood face in place before
they step out the door -- Oz's manner and dress are a reflection of
how she sees herself. She revels in being strong, because in her mind,
the women in her family were weak, and she is distancing herself from
that. I always felt that one of the reasons why Oz doesn't like to
bring her mentally challenged brother, Chuey, out on the street with
her is that around him she feels playful and nurturing. And on the
street she has to be hard. The two personas don't mesh well, so she
prefers him to stay inside. MORE
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© 2006 Polychrome Pictures
Marisol
(Paola Mendoza) talking to her caseworker in On the Outs
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One
out of the three girls turns her life around. Is that reflective of an
actual statistic?
MS: No, in fact this would be against what the facts
say. But, when we sat down to figure out the ending, it was hard. We
debated for months about the idea of hope and one of the girls
"getting out." We did not know what to do, so we went to the
cast and asked for their opinion. And hands down, they said that there
has to be hope, so that is when Oz's ending was created. It would be
unfair for us, as two white filmmakers, to say that there is no hope
for these young people. I have to believe in hope, or else I would
start a revolution...and you know I am close. (I probably shouldn't
say that, I might get wiretapped without a court order.)
LS: I wish we could say one in three girls in this
lifestyle makes it 'out' but sadly that's not the case. But almost
every kid in that world dreams of something else, that is until later,
the grind of day to day life and the saddest poverty -- the poverty of
imagination -- kicks in and they let the dream go. When we asked the
girls we met in the jail what they were going to be one day not a
single one said, 'I'll probably be a crackhead with some kids in
foster care selling blow jobs at five bucks a pop." They said,
"I'm going to be a lawyer, I'm gonna work with kids...I'm going
to get my life on track and go to college." So we tried to show
that moment of possibility -- Oz allows herself to contemplate an
alternative...and we left it at that.
What impact do
you want On the Outs to have?
MS: I hope that this film can open a dialogue with
and about the state of young people in this country. BUT, the young
people have to be involved in the conversation. I would love for young
people to take ownership of this film and use it to show the world the
lives they live, especially young women. Let's have a real
conversation. So, grab a seat at the table and speak up.
LS: I would also like people who aren't personally
touched by young people like our characters to walk out of the film no
longer willing to judge them. I've always believed that once an
audience got to know these girls, they'd realize, 'sh!t, it's
complicated. I would probably do the same things if I were them."
And after that realization, you can't be against these kids -- in
dialogue, in spending tax dollars, in writing laws -- because they ARE
us; in other words, human, just in a sh!tty situation they didn't ask
for.
In creating
this film, was one of your goals to create a "Scared
Straight" for teenage girls?
LS: No. That would imply judgment, and I like to
think we approached our characters without judgment.
MS: No, I do not think that we are trying to scare
anyone, rather create a mirror. I made a documentary about a
playground basketball legend who was incarcerated, Hook Mitchell. He
saw the film while he was in prison. He didn't call me for three
weeks. When I finally spoke to him, he told me how painful it was to
watch his life on film. It made him ask some serious questions to
himself. We hope that is what On the Outs accomplishes…makes people,
young and old, ask those tough questions about themselves.
Besides the
film's theatrical release, do you envision an educational use for the
film? If so, how would like educators to incorporate the film into
their curriculum?
MS: We have created a large educational component
already. We have an educational director who can work with educators
in incorporating the film into their curriculum. They can contact us
through the website (www.ontheouts.com or email us at info@ontheouts.com).
We have done workshops across the country and they are some of the
most rewarding experiences I have had with this film.
LS: We also took the film back to the juvenile jail
where we originally workshopped the script. The kids gave the film so
much respect, which was really validating and profound. We are now
working hard to get the film out to young people all around the
country, and are actively raising funds to do that, with the
educational initiative Michael mentioned. Our experience has been that
this movie fosters truthful assessment among the kids who see it. And
our co-creator, Paola Mendoza, who also plays Marisol, has always felt
that if even one girl watches this film and makes the decision to go a
different way, as she herself did long ago -- and that decision
probably saved her life -- then the film has been a
success. MORE
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© 2006 Polychrome Pictures
Officer
Carter takes Suzette (Anny Mariano) through intake in On the Outs
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How
do you respond to parents/adults who say that On the Outs is too harsh
a reality for their teenagers to view or those that say that exposing
their children to inner city life as depicted in the film robs them of
their innocence too soon?
MS: Unfortunately the reality is a lot worse than
what is in On the Outs. But, what I think is best is for the parent to
see it with their child, so they can have a discussion about it when
it is over. Far too often we see young people wild out and the parents
say, "I didn't know my son (or daughter) did those things...or
thought that about me..." My parents exposed me to everything
from a very young age, so experimentation was not really part of my
life, because I knew things from a young age. But, the parent should
not be involved in their child life where they cannot talk about real
things.
LS: Your question brings to mind one of my favorite
movie scenes ever, from Frederick Wiseman's great documentary
"High School" in which a group of wealthy suburban parents
in the early 1960s are asked how'd they feel if their kids chose to
attend a political rally: The horror! The shame! The consensus was,
'the poor darlings have the rest of their lives to be troubled with
such things...they only have their blissful childhoods once, blah blah
blah." They were so earnest in their desire to 'protect' their
children. Who then a couple years later went on to turn the world on
its a$$, drop out, drop acid, etc. etc.
I have a twelve year-old stepson who was involved in
every aspect of the making of On the Outs. He understood that this was
a movie with bad words and violence and 'rated R' situations, and that
by exposing him to these things we weren't giving tacit approval --
quite the opposite. If anything, I think he came away with an
understanding of how truly lucky he is and how f*cked up things are
for so many people out there, and how far we have to go as a society.
It doesn't trouble me that he is armed with that knowledge.
Are there any
types of stories that you prefer to tell?
LS: I like stories that leave you in a different
place than when you walked in the door. To me, that is the power of
what filmmakers do. So why not harness that to get people thinking?
MS: All of the stories that I have told or will tell
will be stories from people who do not have the chance to tell their
own story. I want to give people a chance, but God knows I have had
enough chances already in my 27 years of living. Let's let some other
folks shine.
What statement
do you want to make with your art? When people look back at the
breadth of your career and your body of work, what do you want them to
take from it?
MS: I do not try to make statements, because I am
not a politician. I just want to create the atmosphere where people
can have a safe, but honest discussion. In 40-50 years from now, I
hope people say Michael Skolnik shared the spotlight.
LS: If I'm lucky enough to have a body of work, I
hope that people say, 'she made us look at things we don't always
choose to look at, and we were glad we did.'
What other
projects are you working on?
MS: I have been working on a number of documentary
projects, specifically two films I am co-directing with another great
director, Rebecca Chaiklin. One Strike for Life intimately chronicles
the journey of Russell Simmons' quest to change the Rockefeller Drug
Laws and the fight of Wanda Best to get her husband pardoned by
Governor Pataki. Cry Haiti follows Wyclef Jean as he returns to his
homeland of Haiti in an effort to bring peace to his homeland.
Finally, I am directing a film that is being produced by Netflix that
is about the King of Swaziland, King Mswati III, the last absolute
monarchy in Africa.
I am also working on another feature with Brian
Grazer and Imagine Entertainment as well as developing a really
special film with Paola Mendoza.
LS: I'm working in fiction film, but always with one
foot in reality; I'm gearing up to direct a film I wrote called
"Higher Ground" that puts a face on issues of immigration,
and human trafficking at the Mexican border. I'm writing another
feature for Focus about Chicano low-riders, and I'm attached to direct
a film about club kids growing up in the council flats in the U.K.
When did you
decide upon your chosen career? Who or what encouraged you to follow a
career in film? Why did you decide to work behind the camera instead
of in front of it?
MS: I am still not decided. I think to myself
everyday, I could wake up and put on a suit and tie and sell
stock...well, maybe not that, but maybe the 3rd guard on the Knicks or
the back-up to Eli Manning. I love what I do, but this is just the
beginning. We got a lot of work to do. Trust me.
LS: For me it was all about not ending up a suburban
housewife married to that guy in the suit and tie selling stock... I
was willing to do just about anything to avoid that, even if it meant
waiting tables and struggling for years to live a creative life. My
husband says I chose director as my career so that I could get paid to
be bossy, and he's probably right. In honesty, I've been lucky in that
I've been encouraged my whole life by people who believe in me --
that's where courage really comes from, when you boil it down.
What general
advice would you offer to aspiring directors looking to follow in your
path?
MS: My path has been long. I have been doing this
since I was 14. For real. Not on some school project sh!t. Going to
the office everyday since I was 14. Go to work. That is the only
advice I can give. Don't worry about the business or getting someone
to read your script, go to work. One thing Russell Simmons taught me
is ownership. For those of us who come out of the hip-hop generation,
we need to take ownership of our culture and own our property. So,
don't wait for that exec to hook you up, go to work, everyday. When
your friends are asleep, be on the computer doing your work. Go see a
play when your friends are partying. I mean party too...but you must
be willing to do the work. It is 7:45 p.m. right now on a Thursday and
trust me, I wanna go home. But, I gotta make sure I do the work. I
have no boss. It's just me against the world!
LS: Do what he said. And keep the faith.
M
January 2006
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